tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6821288.post115591316895510740..comments2023-11-05T04:01:05.199-05:00Comments on Phil Wilson's Blog: The Thin PlacesPhilhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11540149196113374329noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6821288.post-1156429108416803752006-08-24T10:18:00.000-04:002006-08-24T10:18:00.000-04:00I don't think I disagree at all. In fact, I like t...I don't think I disagree at all. In fact, I like the point that God's presence can be a part of the situation regardless of the state of the minister is interesting, and funny, because I wasn't really thinking about the minister at all. I was thinking about the layperson in the congregation. Funny about how the different perspectives that you and I have can work into that.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11540149196113374329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6821288.post-1156386933324899362006-08-23T22:35:00.000-04:002006-08-23T22:35:00.000-04:00I am reading this book now too. I am finally in c...I am reading this book now too. I am finally in chapter seven. I am loving it, but can't seem to find the time to read!Donna Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01591270068580850954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6821288.post-1156369217259892802006-08-23T17:40:00.000-04:002006-08-23T17:40:00.000-04:00In response to Phil's question: God doesn't just c...In response to Phil's question: God doesn't just confer his "presence," he is always more present than we are. He confers his grace. He confers his grace in baptism and communion regardless of the intention, thoughts, or ideas of the ministers. <BR/><BR/>Regarding the recipient, grace is conferred, but the grace must be received by faith if it is to have a healthy effect. So, if you don't receive communion by faith, recognizing the Body of Christ, then you may end up eating your own condemnation (in the Bible!)<BR/><BR/>The point about the minister is a foundational theological point of the early church, going back to the Donatist controversy. In fact, just for fun, here is the 26th of the 39 Articles of Religion (a foundational element of Anglican thought):<BR/><BR/>XXVI. Of the Unworthiness of the Ministers, which hinders not the effect of the Sacraments.<BR/>Although in the visible Church the evil be ever mingled with the good, and sometimes the evil have chief authority in the Ministration of the Word and Sacraments, yet forasmuch as they do not the same in their own name, but in Christ’s, and do minister by his commission<BR/>and authority, we may use their Ministry, both in hearing the Word of God, and in receiving<BR/>the Sacraments. Neither is the effect of Christ’s ordinance taken away by their wickedness,<BR/>nor the grace of God’s gifts diminished from such as by faith, and rightly, do receive the<BR/>Sacraments ministered unto them; which be effectual, because of Christ’s institution and<BR/>promise, although they be ministered by evil men.<BR/>Nevertheless, it appertaineth to the discipline of the Church, that inquiry be made of evil<BR/>Ministers, and that they be accused by those that have knowledge of their offences; and<BR/>finally, being found guilty, by just judgment be deposed.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08954413651635300181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6821288.post-1156269555136745432006-08-22T13:59:00.000-04:002006-08-22T13:59:00.000-04:00Thomas, when I wrote this on Friday, I almost enti...Thomas, when I wrote this on Friday, I almost entitled it "To Thomas"...<BR/><BR/>What is sounds like you're saying is that God confers His presence during the Sacrements regardless of the state of the person participating in them. Would that be a correct interpretation?Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11540149196113374329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6821288.post-1156031662640741592006-08-19T19:54:00.000-04:002006-08-19T19:54:00.000-04:00Hey Phil,Of course I would agree with you that God...Hey Phil,<BR/><BR/>Of course I would agree with you that God can (and does) meet us any time, anywhere, and that we can in no way limit God to specific moments that we have predefined. No doubt, no debate. <BR/><BR/>The difference, though, with the Sacraments (especially the Big 2) is that we believe God's grace is definitley conferred, regardless of what my experience happens to be. <BR/><BR/>So, in your excellent examples, the difference between "normal" time and "thin" time is my emotional recognition of the sacredness of the moment. But, in our theological system (Tom and I are Anglican, and we come from a reformed catholic theology), the place is "thin" because God says it is so. We believe that when we do our part by obeying Jesus' direct commandment to perform a physical act (baptize and celebrate communion), that God backs this act up through the power of His Holy Spirit. <BR/><BR/>So, there is not question whether or not the baptism or communion "counts," no question as to whether or not I have met God, even if I don't know with my head or feel with my emotions that I have met Him. He has met me in a place often to deep for my words, tears or thoughts. <BR/><BR/>While you may or may not disagree with this theological notion, I hope this helps (a tiny bit) to explain what he is saying.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08954413651635300181noreply@blogger.com